tonight, the top five things that america is talking about. number one, peace love and mutual understanding. yeah, right. not in washington. >> i won't play that game. >> we can't negotiate with ourselves. >> it is me. >> number three, bob costas. did he cross the line?

number five, the most outrageous royal prank ever. >> hello there. could i please speak to kate please, my granddaughter? >> this is piers morgan tonight. good evening. our big story tonight from what every one is talking about. washington's high-stakes game of "let's make a deal," to the royal prank called heard around the world. to bob costas talking about guns. and this shocking new york subway photograph. reports of chemical weapons in syria. let's get started with what promises to be a lively discussion. abbe huntsman, and a host of huff posts live. and welcome to you all. let's start with guns and the fallout of the murder and suicide of jovan bellcher and his girlfriend. bob costas of nbc spoke out about this.

let's watch what he said tonight. >> i believe that there should be more comprehensive and effective controls on the sale of guns. roughly 40% of the guns purchased in this country do not require a background check for purchasing. i don't see any reason why someone should be able to purchase military style or body armor or weapons. only the police and the military should have that. >> let's start off. you've been giving me a holler on twitter about this. you are a big gun fan. explain to me why bob costas is wrong? >> it boils down to the ability to protect yourself, piers. when you look at what is what happening in syria with the threat of chemical weapons. the only reason they're not going to use it is because somebody else, the u.s., has a similar threat of using a

similar weapon. as a gun owner, you have to be able to protect yourself. if you are damaged and you are willing to take somebody else's life. that comes down to that person is not going to obey the gun laws. they are going to find a gun or find another weapon. >> i've heard of some stretches, in my time. but stretching from javon belcher and the shooting in syria and chemical weapons seems like a bit of a stretch. the implications of that is that every american should have access to chemical weapons and nuclear weapons. it will result in weapons ownership. look at europe. look at japan. look at the rest of the world. we are way, way out there. we have the highest murder rate in the world. it hasn't protected us. it has resulted in arguments that should have a consequence of maybe a slap in the face, resulting in a bullet through the heart. it results in a double-murder in

this case, a murder/suicide. guns don't protect. they cause suicide. >> let me bring in -- >> they cause suicide? >> i can promise, i'll get back to you, carol. here is what they say to me. i've had it all. but trying to get a debate going. i've been on two years on cnn. in that time, there's been a series of gun rages. each time it is the same debate and nothing gets done about it. 300 million guns and you have between 11,000 and 12,000 guns and murders a year. by comparison, britain has 35 as does germany and australia. japan has one or two. to countries that have strict gun control have very little gun murder. what do you say to americans who

say it makes me feel safe? >> i think carole had it right. she said it is about personal responsibility. that is the most important part about this whole conversation. it is a difficult one. people are going to have an opinion about it. we have to make sure we don't disrespect our constitution amendment rights. we have to make sure that they were -- wanted the american people to feel protected about the british at the time. times have changed since then. i don't think people should be able to go online and buy guns. there should be rules in place on background checks. background checks, absolutely. but i think it's important that we respect our constitution because our country is founded on these freedoms. >> i don't want anyone to think that i'm anti-american. our country is founded on these freedoms. i totally respect the

constitution, by the way. what i don't respect is what i don't respect is the interpretation of the letter of the second amendment of the constitution, which i think is being misused to endorse everyone in america having an assault rifle. alan dershowitz? >> absolutely. there's talks about a well-regulated militia. it was talking about the power of the government not to take away guns from a well-regulated militia. everyone should exercise personal responsibility, by refusing to have a gun in their home. not putting their children at risk of suicide or murder. yes, people should be punished but we shouldn't encourage criminal conduct by having guns at flea markets to criminals and felons and anybody that wants to own a gun. if this football player hadn't had a gun there would be two people alive today not dead.

>> that is not true. if he wanted to kill somebody, there are plenty of weapons including his fist, a car, a bomb that can do it. if you take away the gun, that intention is still there. >> but it's a fleeting intention. it lasts a minute. and if you have a gun, it takes only a second. >> it's a fleeting -- you are putting the word -- >> to carole's point. it is people that kill people. i think it is important to make sure. >> it is people with guns who kill people. >> no. let's talk about in england. >> we're moving on. there's a lot to cover here. this debate will rage again because there will be more gun outrages. and my position will get more entrenched when they happen. let's move to this "new york post" front page. it was about a young guy who

pushed somebody on to a train track, who got killed. should the man have taken the photograph or helped? he said it happened too quickly. i guess what it says about the subway system in america, about that kind of crime, what do you do about it? alan dershowitz? >> the picture should have been published. americans have a right to see tragedy. we shouldn't fault anybody for not putting their lives in risk. judge not lest you be judged. and third of all, about the subways, yeah. i travel on the subways all the time. i don't think they're safe. i think people stand too close to the edge. people could easily push people on to the subway. we probably should have barriers and have a fence open where the door comes in. we should do more to protect people.

>> first, i would like to point out that he was pushed by somebody who didn't have a gun. i want to say something serious here. not a lot of people know this about me. when i was a senior in college my boyfriend was killed in a car accident. and i know the way that i felt at that moment. and i cannot imagine how this poor man's family felt looking at that picture. to me, knowing how devastated i was only having seen the body, to see his struggle for the last minutes of his life, to me, shows to respect for life. i think it's morally reprehensible. and i think it's reprehensible that "the new york post" ran it. and i think nobody should buy "the new york post." you are watching the second before he gets run over by a train. >> it is not only about the

photo though. it says doomed, this man is about to die. there is nothing right about that photo or about what they put on that cover. i felt the same way you did. if you're that man's family, you're watching the second before he gets run over by a train. >> it's what they wrote on the cover. it says doomed. this man's about to die. it's so disrespectful to the man who died and to his family. news corp. owns "the new york post." they're not known for their ethics. but you would think they would go out of their way to not disrespect this. >> i'm sure it is their argument, is that every form of media has been running the photograph on their front page. and there's a hypocrisy there. if you feel that strongly, don't use the darn thing. >> think of the most iconic photos ever published. the photograph of the little boy with his hands up during the holocaust. the photograph of the little

girl about to be killed during the vietnam war. photography is real life. and the public has the right to see the drama, the tragedy, and the horrors. and newspapers have an obligation to report. we can debate the ethics. but the newspapers should put it out there. >> but those photos are about sending a message. you see pictures of starving children. you're trying to send a message to the rest of the world. what benefit did this photo have? what did this photo have benefit for? >> this is a debate all over america. it has been used by every form of media, who are repeating the offense of running the original picture. turning to other offensive things. the fiscal cliff, which is beginning to be one of the great crashing bores in the history of world publics. you're three bright americans all involved in politics, in some way or form. the rest of the world finds

this, not only laughable, but almost dangerously laughable, that year in, year out, it seems, washington goes to these cliffs. plays games, doesn't get deals done. what the hell is wrong with american politicians? alan dershowitz, what is wrong with american politicians? why can't they get around a table and negotiate properly? >> because all they care about is getting elected. nobody cares deeply about the future of america. we have america to urge with the israelis to negotiate with the palestinians. urging to negotiate with everyone but us in washington. we don't negotiate. our parties are so extreme. i'm a relatively wealthy person. i want to be paying more taxes. i want our taxes to go to serve the policies of the country, education, charity, health care. i think that president obama's right about this. but i think compromise is going to be necessary to achieve some result. >> let me bring in abbe.

your father is known as a moderate republican and a good dealmaker, a man who used to negotiate. what do you make of this? and what does he make of this? >> i think morale is so low right now. the country's so divided. especially for my generation. we're the ones that are going to be handed down the $60 trillion defic deficit. they will come to a deal. but right now, it's political theater. and it's probably going to look like the simpson-bowles. that will come full-circle again. >> here's a problem the republicans have got themselves into. is obama has been very clever here, the president. i think what he's done is skillfully said to the public, if he goes over the fiscal cliff, the republicans are prepared to make the entire middle class to pay more tax to save 2% of the wealthiest americans paying a little bit more. and that's a very bad position for the republicans to find

themselves in, isn't it? >> it certainly is. it's a very bad position for them to find themselves in. the fact of the matter, it isn't true. raising taxes on the wealthiest americans will not only solve the problems. it doesn't even address the core problems. the core problems, $16 trillion in national debt comes from government overspending. and we have sluggish growth. raising the taxes on anybody, whether it's the poor or the middle class or the wealthiest americans, doesn't solve that problem. and that's my point of frustration. let's figure out what the key problems are and solve those, instead of having the rhetoric and say we need more revenue. i gave the analogy, of giving a kid an allowance, and he spends credit card debt more than you make each other. >> they're all about to go off on a long weekend. and also have their christmas holidays. i'd stop paying them. i'd freeze their pay.

>> is that an option? >> that's what i would do. and probably cane them, as well. let's move on to something more trivial and very entertaining, if not very nice for the victims. listen to this tape. >> hello. good morning, king edward vii. >> hello, there. can i please speak to kate, my granddaughter. >> are they putting us through? >> yes. >> i mean, absolutely unbelievable. so, kate middleton, or the duchess of cambridge, as she is now, is in hospital with this morning sickness, having revealed she's progress. and some dumb aussie deejay rings up with a twang accent. and they think it's the queen of england. i feel personally affronted. alan dershowitz, have you ever heard anything so ludicrous? >> it's the worst imitation i've ever heard.

>> ever. there's a corgi in the background. >> i thought it was you. >> deejays are allowed to be ridiculous and funny. of all of the problems in the world this, is not the most serious one. >> carol, quickly. >> they're the ones that were dumb. they put the call through. >> i don't blame the nurse. i don't blame the nurse talking to them. she had been put through by the receptionist, with the immortal words, the queen's on the phone. what are you supposed to say? >> i think it's innocent. it gave us a laugh today. >> i would like them taken to the tower of london, those deejays. that's what happened to them. as always, thank you all very much, indeed. a spirited, lively debate. when we come back, will syria use weapons on its own people? this holiday, share everything.

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our concerns that are increasingly desperate assaad regime might turn to chemical weapons. or might lose control of them to one of the many groups that are now operating within syria. >> secretary of state clinton's concern as nbc reports that syria is loading its bombs with chemical weapons. welcome to you both. this is pretty serious, isn't it, nick? you've just been in syria. is it actually news, in the sense of this is the first we heard of this? or are the pentagon briefing, this is a reality? >> have have been reports already, that syria has weaponized its nerve gas already

into scud missiles, into artillery and into bombs. these have been going on, in fact, i noticed cnn two days ago had reported something similar. there seems to be more reports that chemicals for nerve gas are being united. there team seems to be more reports of them mixing. that's pretty alarmling. >> i remember kvr co-ing back in britain, the iraq war buildup. and we had almost exactly the same pattern. bad guy has chemical weapons about to use them on his people. we have to do something. turned out to be a lot of twadle. how do we know this intelligence is true? >> i suppose we don't know. there's a lot of reporting, true or false. i don't know as much as nick does on this tropic. there's a lot of reporting, these chemical, weapons of mass destruction, came in the early 2000s. 2003, 2004, with the assistance

of the russians. i can't verify that. that's being reported. i talked to jim miklaszewski from nbc tonight at the top of our show on cnbc. i asked him specifically because of the president's red-line doctrine. is there any movement of these weapons? i agree with what nick said. they've been there. and they've been attached. was there any movement? movement would be a very dangerous thing. >> what did he say? >> he said no, not yet. movement implies we're going to send in an aircraft in to help them. >> the red line has been specifically drawn. if assad tries to use chemical weapons on his people, america will answer. two-fold. will assad do this as a last hoorah. and what will america do if it comes to it? >> i don't think we're being duped by the administration. there's a difference from 2003 in iraq. and the bush administration was eager to go into iraq. these days, the last thing the

obama administration wants to do is go into iraq. in terms of will syria actually use them? i don't think we have any idea. what we do know, is they're not useful militarily. they're helpful in an negotiation, about getting them out. it's hard to see how they advance his cause. >> assad would face complete obliteration if he does this. and some say he wants asylum in venezuela or whatever. he's not a stupid man. why would he risk the wrath of the world ascending on him? >> it's hard to see how this advances his cause, except as part of the negotiation. if you're trying to get a better deal for your family, then, maybe it's useful. >> would this create an internal coup, with his background? i don't know how sane he is or not, and what he's done. he's killing his own people. he's butchering his own people. when do the colonels come after

him, to use a latin phrase? >> i don't think that happens. if anything, i think assaad may be a prisoner of his security establishment. i don't think he will be pushed aside by his aides. >> when do the nato forces and nato troops come in? it has to happen. >> i don't think they're going to go in on the ground. i think we're going to see patriot missiles in turkey. we may see other help, intelligence assistance for the rebels. we're not going to see nato troops on the ground. >> it's going to be an interesting few weeks, i think. let's move quickly to egypt. a lot of difficult scenarios there developing, with president morsi, apparently, showing a few traits of mubarak, with the executive orders he's giving himself. did he need to do this? and what is the fallout going to be here? the big protests all through cairo are the eruptions in egypt. >> he blew it. first of all, the grab for power

from the judges. he compounded that today, by allowing his people, the muslim brotherhood to go out and crack heads. several people appear to have been killed. he's made things worse for himself. but that said, this is the first inning in a long game. i notice the stock market actually rose today, notwithstanding this. i think this was a bad sign for morsi. but i wouldn't make too much of it. >> quick question on this, larry. the arab spring promised so much. >> right. >> how are you feeling about it now? >> that's tragedy. i was in favor of the arab spring. this whole morsi story, this guy appears not to be a democrat, small "d." he appears to have dictatorial instincts. egypt was a secular muslim country. say what you will about mubarak. this guy seems to be moving back towards jihadist, religious, far

out notions of the muslim brotherhood. i think it's no good. they're coming to tear the palace down, he's running out the back door. what does that tell you? >> not good. >> it tells me it doesn't have much potential. >> it's dysfunctional. they have to sort it out. that leads me to a commercial break. we'll talk about our own dysfunctional people in washington, d.c., in this fiscal cliff. [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac to provide a better benefits package... oahhh!

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this week, we made a good faith offer to avert the fiscal crisis. now, we need a response from the white house. we can't sit here and negotiate with ourselves. >> house speaker boehner saying that is president obama and the democrats to save you for being higher taxes. this fiscal cliff thing, the problem with the republicans, larry, is that they have been boxed in by the democrats into a difficult position where the

polls confirm that the public in america believe that the reason that president obama is going to win the debate is because, come the fiscal cliff moment, that if he goes over, that they are going to save the backsides of the wealthy 2% of americans. i probably shouldn't but i do. >> speaking as a reagan conservative, i must say i rather agree with you. probably shouldn't. but i do. i think divided government is very difficult. and there's some principles that speaker boehner is fighting for, with which i actually agree. but i think politically, the risk here for the gop, is they've become the party of rich people. and they give up the middle-class to the democrats. and i think you saw some of that in the presidential election. i don't think that's their intent. i think their tax reform intent is quite sound. but the way this is playing out, i think that's a big risk for them. >> they're becoming the party of

rich, white, older men, is what it seems to me. you can't think of any other section of american community that right now is thinking the republican party's for me. this isn't be a good place for them to find themselves. >> i think that's why the politics of this are, you know, make it quite possible to go over the cliff. i think the democrats see precisely that. if we go over the cliff, the republicans get blamed. so, there is not exactly an incentive to go over. i think the republicans, what they worry about, is not being blamed by the democrats. but a primary contender from within the republican field. you know, they're not going to -- that doesn't mean that they're obliged to stop this. i'm afraid the politics will make it harder. >> his problem is for john boehner. his own party is split. we're seeing splinter groups coming out, senators, governors,

congressmen, saying -- >> from both sides. i'm prepared to go for more taxes. not exactly. this is what interests me and may prolong the negotiations. there's a lot of people in the republican party, and the democratic party, particularly in the senate, who said $250,000 is not really a rich man. maybe a rich man in lincoln, nebraska. but it's not a rich man in new york city or los angeles. and therefore, the rates, the tax rates, which they want to go from 35% to 39.6%, maybe you're going to have to raise the threshold to $500,000, $600,000. maybe you're not going all the way to 39.6%. maybe you go to 37%. >> this is negotiation, isn't it? >> yes. >> i had newt gingrich last night. he almost shut down the government as the speaker, with bill clinton. but the second term, they did get stuff done. both of them used to them me, they used to throw everybody out

of the room, and get it done. what worries me about the boehner/obama relationship, it seems like it's almost nonexistent. they can't even shake hands at a party, for goodness sake. >> and in many ways, i blame the republicans for not coming up with a real deal, not recognizing what the voters did. at the same time, i think obama has been very, very poor at applying the personal charm and chemistry that the president can. dragging people off to camp david. and we don't know whether or not that would work. but he hasn't tried it. and when a government budget is at stake -- >> larry, they did feel offended by president obama's last offer. they felt it was so outrageous. >> it was outrageous. it was double what they saw last year. it had spending increases, rather than spending cuts. and it wanted to have congress lose its role, in term terms of

increasing the debt ceiling. none of that's probably going to happen. and i think to nick's point, it's a good point. if you go back and look. i worked for reagan years ago. reagan and tip o'neill would sit and work together. i'm not saying they'd do every detail. >> so was gingrich and clinton. >> and clinton and gingrich evolved into that kind of relationship. and i must say the president has done a poor job. he did a poor job last year and he's done a poor job this year. two days after the election, boehner came up with a tax revenue plan. very controversial in his party. he said, let's cap deductions and loopholes and leave the race alone because that help growth. that was $800 billion. it shocked a lot of republicans. and he got nothing. he got, you know, nothing from obama. and i think that started the bad blood. and i think the president -- >> good point. they both got to learn the art of negotiation. >> we haven't heard from democrats in the senate. i'm going to guarantee you that the democrats in the senate are going to be split on this

business of who's rich and what the right tax rates are going to be. >> i have to leave it there, chaps. nick, larry, thank you both much, indeed. coming up next, kerry kennedy joins me about fame, politics and most important of all, taylor swift.ta alka-seltzs cold & cough... [ buzz! ] take dayquil. use nyquil d... [ ding! ] ...and get longer nighttime cough relief. use tylenol cold multisymptom nighttime... [ coughs ] [ buzz! ] [ screams ] ...and you could find yourself... honey? ...on the couch. nyquil d. 50% longer cough and stuffy nose relief. [ male announcer ] this december, remember -- what starts with adding a friend... ♪ ♪ ...could end with adding a close friend.

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kerry kennedy's been in the public eye for decades. she grabs headlines and gets attention, especially with causes close to our heart. the president of the robert f. kennedy center for human rights. good evening to you. >> great to be here. >> nice to finally meet you. human rights issues are exploding all over the world. regardless of anything else. it's a huge human rights and humanitarian issue. what do you think america should be doing with this, do you think? >> i think hillary clinton made a very strong statement today. of course, you see with the -- with what happened in congress yesterday, the lack of support in the united states senate for the u.n. but the u.n. process really has to go forward and has to be the

leader on syria. >> i just don't think it's helpful to americans when so many senior politicians trash the u.n. you know? it's the united nations. and actually, it's better for america. >> absolutely. >> the united nations takes a lot of the work on the ground in these places. >> you're absolutely right. but there's human rights abuses that are exploding all over the world. and one that we're working very hard on right now is in uganda. there's anti-homosexuality bill that would make homosexual acts punishment by the death penalty. >> completely outrageous. >> it is. and the speaker of the house there said she's going to deliver this bill as a christmas present. so, we have 2 1/2 weeks to stop that bill right now. >> imagine. it's disgusting, isn't it? >> it certainly is. as people across this state, we're in new york state. you don't need a passport to work on human rights.

right here, we're working on the farm workers bill. in the united states, farm workers don't have a right to overtime pay. they don't have a right to form a union. they can be fired. there's plenty of work to do here. >> as a kennedy, i've met quite a few kennedys. you're all great people from this great family. what do you make of what's going on in washington, with this ludicrous kind of paralyzing, of any sensible debate? it's something that the kennedys, the clan, were good negotiators. they get stuff done. they wouldn't tolerate years of endless nonsense like this. >> it's very, very hard with the tea party. that's a group of people who came to washington to destroy it. they were very clear about that. and i think president obama is doing his very, very best. and the american people have spoken the last election, that we want change. so, you know, i think everybody misses teddy. and the great thing about teddy

is, that he really was great friends with people on both sides of the aisle. and it's a lot easier to negotiate with somebody that you like. >> i think the president should play more golf with john boehner. he never played one game with him, if that. let's turn to more cherry matters. the rfk center, raising money to help people around the world. tell me about it. >> first of all, i'm bidding on you. >> i'm one of the prizes. >> you are a prize. >> you can go to www.charitybuzz.com search piers. and the current bid is $70 million, to bring four people to that studio for the cnn experience. >> you have competition against a lot of people. anderson cooper is up there, too. >> is he beating me? i will not be happy if he beats me. if you are watching, get on the website and bid higher. i'll give you a cup of tea,

whatever you like. and there's a meet and photo with president bill clinton. a signed guitar from taylor swift. >> and how about this, fly fishing with paul volcker. if you can do that, you can buy the other auction items. >> charitybuzz.com. i've got to beat anderson cooper. finally, let's come to the car accident you had. >> yes. >> a strange case, where you had taken an ambien sleeping pill in the morning. >> i reached for my thyroid medication and took the wrong pill. i did it at 7:30 in the morning. i did what tom brokaw did. i took the wrong pills. i was on my way to the gym. got into the car. got into a car accident. but there was no alcohol in my blood. that's what happened. >> the case in general.

>> yes. >> good luck with that. >> thank you. >> let's talk about taylor swift before you go. she's the hot woman at the moment. she's dating a british rock star. she was honored at the rfk centers gala. >> and incidentally, you can get one direction tickets, too, on the -- >> well, there you go. is she nice, taylor swift? >> so fantastic. such an amazing woman. she spoke. she gave about a 20-minute speech, sang 4 songs the other night. very deep, very moving. >> good for her. she's the most hated woman in britain, thanks to her fling with harry styles. >> my daughter, mackaylamakaylay unhappy with her right now. next up, gordon brown, on everything from the american economy, to the royal baby, to his personal mission about child labor. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future.

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a new way to save on your prescriptions. it's the aarp medicarerx saver plus plan from unitedhealthcare. with this plan, you can get copays as low as a dollar through a preferred network pharmacy like walgreens -- where you'll find 8,000 convenient locations. best of all, this plan has the lowest part d premium in the united states -- only $15 a month. open enrollment ends december 7th. so call today or visit your local walgreens. gordon brown is making his mission to stop what he calls the new slavery. millions of children around the world forced to work at shockingly young ages. the former prime minister is serving as the u.n. envoy for global education. and he joins me now. welcome to you, gordon. >> good evening.

>> this is a really disturbing report. 215 million children globally are believed to be at work, of which 15 of the 61 million who don't go to school, are child laborers. you, amid your horror, have come up with some possible solutions. tell me what you think we should be doing about this. >> i think we should ban child labor for young children. and i think we should get these children to school. and what we are exposing this week is something quite intolerable that we have young children in india, who have been discovered making christmas decorations, christmas presents, christmas gifts, that have been incarcerated in dark rooms without any sunlight, without any fresh air, not being fed properly. lacerating cuts because they've been working with glass. i don't think there's a parent in america or around the world, who would want to be buying christm christmas presents who are made

in the exploitation of children who are 8 and 9. we have to have the laws, the policing of the laws. and we have to insist that the children go to school. and we have to provide the teachers and the books and the classrooms for that. >> there's a lot made in china and india and other places, that flood into america and europe. what responsibility do businesses have that sell these products to try to find out what is going on at the origin of them? in terms of the sweatshops for the young kids? >> piers, good businesses will be checking the supply chains. they will be pretty sure where the goods are coming from. but businesses have to recheck, now that we know this christmas trade is being done. they've got to ask about who is the supplier? they've got to check whether the suppliers are using child labor. and they've got to monitor the conditions. there's got to be a combined effort from the companies themselves and from the governments of individual countries where we know child labor is being practiced. we managed with the help of the

global march against child labor, an indian campaign, to get these children released from what was effectively slavery and bondage. they'd been trafficked into that trade, sold by relatives or by friends of the family, into being slaves. and we need greater individu een the part of the world of what's going on in their countries. i think people would be very disturbed. i'm afraid this is the really tragic christmas story of 2012. >> india is an emerging superpower. and in many ways, has great growing economic strength. how much do they take this kind of thing seriously? and what pressure should countries, like america, perhaps be putting on countries like india, to put on this child labor issue? >> india at the moment has no law banning child labor completely. there's legislature going before the indian parliament. it's not been heard by the indian parliament and passed by the indian parliament.

and i think before christmas, and the parliament sits to december 20th, the indian parliament should be pressurized by the rest of the world. go on to the website, envoyeducation.org, and ask the indian parliament to pass legislation immediately. so no child under 14 will be under child labor. and there will be strict rules of children 14 to 18 to be involved in work. the least we can do is persuade the indian parliament to pass in legislation immediately. >> this pakistani girl, malala. you've been heavily involved in her story. you've been out to pakistan to show your support for her. what can we do about the treatment of young people like her, that have been victimized by the taliban, by other organizations, like that, to try to protect them going forward? >> you've got to remember, malala was shot simply because she wanted to go to school. and here was the taliban, trying

to send a message to every other child that they should not expect to go to school. and what's been remarkable is the rising opinion in pakistan itself, where people who used to be the silent majority, and i met them, are now saying, we will not accept these dictates by the taliban for children not to go to schools. as long as there's girls going to school, malala will be the symbol of a girls' right to an education. >> well said. if i can end on a couple contemporary issues. one here and one back at our homeland. one is the fiscal cliff. you're one of the keener minds in great britain. what do you make of what's going on in america? the expression, if america sneezes, we all catch a cold back in europe, is as true as ever. what do you think should be hopping here to get a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff happening? >> i have no doubt that people are working hard to get a deal.

we have the president re-elected and have a new congress, think it's right they get down to the business of sorting this out. i think america's got to think that what it needs to do is get growth in its economy, as well. and it needs to get growth by trade and exporting. and i think what we're missing at the moment is a global agreement whereby the big powers try to work on the economy. you have to have fiscal problems and you also have to have growth. that's the key for the future. there's a global deal waiting to be done, with china, europe, india also involved in this, and of course, america itself, where we could build the confidence that's necessary to get high levels of growth around the world. >> finally, gordon brown, i couldn't let you go without asking your view of the single biggest news story to hit the planet in the last week. it is, of course, the royal baby. >> it's incredibly important that we give them the privacy because her health is a massive

issue. but you can see that britain thinks -- we have a monarchy that you can see prince charles and prince william, and the baby that comes from the pregnancy. you can see the monarchy stretching 100 years ahead. >> you certainly can. and long may they stretch. gordon brown, a great pleasure talking to you. thank you. >> thank you very much. and we'll be right back. but i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth!

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